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Me. Cairva (Us)'s avatar

Isn't this proof that the UK productivity is worse than USA, Germany and France? Why does the population per sector matter?

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Alexander Harrowell's avatar

Well, the first challenge is defining what you mean by "decline"; over the decline years, typical Britons experienced a transformation of their lives in terms of consumption while also gaining a comprehensive welfare state, after all. This quote makes the point:

"The failings of sectors like steel or (most infamously) automobiles were painfully evident to all, with vivid imagery of factories closed and national champions lost forever. Success in other fields (especially services) tended to remain under the radar"

Here, we're plainly talking about the 1980s, but decline discourse was already flourishing when the industrial share of GDP was actually <em>rising</em> and e.g. English Electric was simultaneously making power stations, electric railways, trains to run on them, fighter jets, and computers.

I can think of a <em>lot</em> of different definitions:

- economic growth was fast in 1945-1975, but not as fast as country x

- productivity growth was fast in 1945-1975, but not as fast as country x

- the US and USSR, or today, China, are more powerful in political terms than we are

- countries in the empire want to be independent (remember that depending where you stood in politics you might think this was either treachery, pragmatism, or a desirable goal of policy)

- traditional industries are collapsing post 1981 (or the oil crisis)

- kids these days, don't know if they're arthur or martha, what with them pop singers etc etc

- my social class is no longer as rich or powerful relatively as it used to be (obviously this was often a desirable goal for the other social classes, who considered it progress rather than decline, and taken together, it's just a statement that the great compression was a thing and you wish r would be > g again)

- general yadda-ing about whatever culture trend doesn't agree with your tastes

- prejudices of various kinds

As a lot of these are mutually exclusive, and some of them are just bullshit, you need to pick among them and stick with your choice. This also implies answering questions like "decline, for who?" - I am sure if you had to let the hoi polloi visit the country seat because r < g and the taxes are up, and you weren't going to personally rule half of India, you were pretty sure that was decline, but not being a country squire I don't see it that way.

Alternatively you can go with a higher-order approach and ask why, despite the fact that one man's decline was so often another's progress, so many people agreed on decline as a general kind of vibe, but then that's going to involve a lot of vague culturalist waffling.

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